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IGF-1 very high, rethink starting TRT?

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  • IGF-1 very high, rethink starting TRT?

    Hi guys

    Been using a SERM for half the year to increase my test but decided to change to test injections.

    Just got some baseline bloods done in anticipation for TRT but my IGF-1 is through the roof!

    I have read that taking test can cause IGF-1 to rise so I'm not sure if starting TRT is the right course of action.

    Bloods below, any input appreciated!


  • #2
    I find it interesting you had high IGF-1 even with clomid and armidex in you system
    moderator

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    • z0rn
      z0rn commented
      Editing a comment
      just curious how did you figure he's taking clomid and arimedex?

  • #3
    As did I. After some googling it might be a case of acromegaly.

    Off to the Endo next week to follow up on this.

    Shoutout to the fantasticimed service, without the ability to order my own bloods I wouldn't have picked up on this. Endo I saw for low T last year only tested for Total T and Free T LOL.

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    • #4
      Doesn't happen often but I'm stumped... completely.

      The only thing I can think of is that Aromasin - which RAISES IGF-1 - is what you have been taking instead of Arimidex - depending on where it was sourced / a mistake etc.

      As hinted upon, Clomid raises a protein that binds to IGF-1 which can lower it quite dramatically. Especially over 6 months.

      Acromegaly testing would be a good step to take.

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      • #5
        Well I saw the Endo and they totally freaked out that I had been self medicating and ordering my own bloods. Knowledge of the use of SERMs with men in Australia seems to be non existent.

        Anyway they want me to wait three months to get baseline bloods so looks like I'll have high IGF-1 for a while yet.

        Will the high IGF-1 do me any good in the gym?

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        • #6
          Pretty much non-existent, correct. GP's too. In their 11 years or so of full study, they only spend about 10 - 15 minutes on the Endocrine system and move on. Most Endo's are still hopelessly in the dark about hormonal science outside of Diabetes and Contraception.

          I don't think my IGF-1 has ever been in range since I started TRT. And all Endo's freak out thinking it is Gigantism or some obscure oddity.

          It could. It certainly won't do you any DISadvantage in the gym. But you've got to remember it is only a surrogate marker. If it is actually translating into Growth Hormone expressions, it will absolutely help you to recover, decrease fat and increase muscle somewhat.

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          • #7
            Passed the OGTT test with GH, and normal MRI, so no acromegaly which is nice.

            Endo won't prescribe TRT though, "too young and cannot legally prescribe" LOL I'm in my early 30s and frickin 7 nmol/L!!

            Gonna try 100mg Test E a week and then a small dose of Caber if Prolactin remains elevated.

            Updated bloods

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            • insulinjunkie
              insulinjunkie commented
              Editing a comment
              dont use caber, use pramipexol, way better

          • #8
            Have you by any chance had your pituitary checked for any tumorous growths? You have some bizarre results that suggests it would be a good idea. Random hormones are expressing random secretions according to your numbers - which have little to do with your current treatment.

            Your test is so ****ing low that your SHBG is absolutely in the pits just to free up enough of it to scrape it within range.

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            • #9
              ausdude
              Thanks for you continued interest in my case. Yeh had two MRI's now 2017 showed a tiny 3mm micro lesion on the pituitary, 2018 MRI it has disappeared.

              Endo wants to wait another 3 months and see what happens with prolactin, I doubt it will change much.

              Apart from a low libido and an inability to pack on any muscle I feel totally fine.

              Anyway I'll see how I feel on the Test and go from there

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              • #10
                I thought as much.

                It's possible that there is some down-regulation somewhere all caused by the low T. So first and foremost I would bump that up and assess from there. Your endocrine axis is all connected so it's not impossible for one simple thing to alter many others in drastic ways.

                The high prolactin and progesterone could all be form estrogen dominance. Not that your estrogen is high, but your T is so low, so your T > E2 ratio is way, WAY off.

                So many low T markers there, including the adrenal stress. Tell me you also have slightly high cholesterol (if you've had it checked) also? And I won't be surprised.

                This is also a classic case of how pointless it is to use SERM / AI as a TRT therapy on their own.

                If anything, you should use HCG with an AI. But as Dr Rand says - why not take the ACTUAL thing you're trying to replace to begin with? It makes no sense to waste time doing other things, not to mention they aren't permanent solutions so if they do work, once you stop, they stop working.

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                • #11
                  Gotta love Dr Rand, most dte trt doc I've come across.

                  Fingers crossed the Test improves things, gotta be patient when it comes to hormones.

                  Cholesterol is within range but Trigs shot up after discontinuing SERM.




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                  • #12
                    Need HDL and LDL. Both would typically be sub par when Trig's are raised. And will correct with Test.

                    Body makes choleSTEROL to make STEROid hormones. When they aren't getting made cholesterol (and trig's) go to ****.

                    In the presence of decent Test levels, with healthy weight, cholesterol is usually no problem. And the sat fat fallacy has been disproven many times.

                    Bad cholest and trig's are one of the many markers for LOW test, of course.

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                    • #13
                      The IGF-1 score is not that high. All looks okay. Symptoms?
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                      • #14
                        Yep not concerned about IGF-1 anymore. An American TRT doc I spoke to said some guys have elevated IGF-1 with no explainable reason or significant clinical findings.

                        Symptoms: Libido gradually died off about two years ago. Can go weeks without and not care, a week would be a massive challenge before. Minimal muscle gain despite consistent training. 32yo for the record.

                        I'm one week into my TRT regiment. 100mg a wk, 50mg Mon/Thu Sub-Q. I'll get bloods after xmas and then see how my e2 ratio, PRL are looking and adjust.

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                        • #15
                          Just a quick update.

                          Little over a week into it and wowee. Bit of talent in the gym last night, had a semi for the whole workout .

                          I work a busy retail job and despite being flat out my confidence was way up and had a better handle on things.

                          Was worried it was gonna be a repeat of my SERM days, good on paper but feel nothing.

                          After two years of low T must say this has me really pumped for what’s to come!

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